Tolkien and Home

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Merry
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Tolkien and Home

Postby Merry » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:29 pm

I've written a little essay--hope you enjoy it!

After viewing ‘The Hobbit’ movie and trying to reconcile the various aspects of the very mixed character of Thorin Oakenshield, I have been thinking about the importance of having a place to call home in The Hobbit and many of Tolkien’s works. To be biographical for a moment, Professor Tolkien’s childhood was marked by the absence of home, having been born in South Africa and living a rather itinerant existence in England after the death of his father and the financial difficulties that plagued his mother. After his mother’s untimely death, when Tolkien was only twelve years of age, he and his brother lived in a boarding house under the guardianship of the local priest, where he met his future wife, also an orphan. One can imagine that two such young people might have dreamed of building a home together. It was not until after his release from military service in World War I that he and his wife would have what would be called a proper home, the first of several.

I have always been struck by Tolkien’s designation of Rivendell as ‘The Last Homely House’, a characterization that is lost in Peter Jackson’s rather too ethereal place. What made Rivendell ‘homely’? In one way, it was the last place that was safe before entering The Wild. Tolkien’s own painting of the house, seen from a distance, is of a conventional large country estate deep in the valley, muted yellowish in color with a red roof. He describes it as a “good house”, an interesting term, and tells us that “Bilbo would gladly have stopped there for ever and ever—even supposing a wish would have taken him right back to his hobbit-hole without trouble”, which is to say that it was more like home than home. Moreover, here is Tolkien’s famous description: “His [Elrond’s] house was perfect, whether you liked food, or sleep, or work, or story-telling, or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of them all.”

The Lord of the Rings gives us a few more details. After his harrowing escape from the Black Riders, Frodo awakes to find himself lying in bed, thinking he was at home and had slept late. But the fact that the ceiling was flat convinced him otherwise, and the ceiling had “dark beams richly carved”. There were patches of sunlight on the wall; it was probably the walls that gave the most homely comfort, since in several places in the legendarium, hobbits lamented the absence of walls. In most ways, Rivendell was a conventional place, with beds and chairs and coverlets and cushions and mirrors, fireplaces and food and drink that were not described much beyond their ability to cure and comfort.

Even though the hobbits are safe in several places on their adventures, they are never again ‘at home’. Delightfully, Tolkien describes the food, drink and accommodations in many places: Tom Bombadil’s house, Beorn’s house, the Prancing Pony, Lothlorien, Lake-town, Meduseld, Minas Tirith, even the cave at Henneth Annun. While these places provide a reprieve of sorts, and even some delights, they are mere stops along the way.

So it is no accident, it seems, that the participants in the Battle of the Five Armies are all homeless peoples. ‘The Hobbit’ movie does a good job, I think, of depicting the horrors of Smaug’s eviction of Thorin’s people from their ancestral home and their subsequent struggles even to make a living in the world. Lake-town’s people are also victims of the destruction of Dale. Thranduil’s sylvan elves are living in a cave; their lives are somewhat pleasurable, but they should be living in trees and cannot do so because of the evil in the haunted forest, Mirkwood.

While the people of Lake-town and the elves of the forest are not fighting in the Battle of the Five Armies to recover their homes, as the dwarves are, a little psychology might prove useful here. As someone who has been made homeless herself—in my case, it was a flood, not a dragon, water and not fire—I can tell you that one becomes keenly aware of the importance of money, probably moreso than one needs to be. It is almost as if, absent the comforts of home, one must make doubly sure to be able to provide other comforts and security.

So is Thorin Oakenshield motivated by the desire for home or the desire for treasure? It’s hard to say. The two might be the same in dwarf psychology. But Thorin is able to separate them finally in his farewell speech to Bilbo: “There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West. Some courage and some wisdom, blended in measure. If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

As Thorin concedes, the only person who does not succumb to dragon-sickness, the lust for gold, is our little hero, Bilbo, who is mainly motivated by the comforts of home and the hope to get back there some day. Even while in possession of the Arkenstone, all Bilbo desires are bacon and eggs, a homely meal. Perhaps in our highly materialist and transient society, Tolkien has a good lesson for us: go home.
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Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
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MICHKA
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby MICHKA » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:42 am

Merci, Merry, pour ce développement, cette mise au point et la conclusion très simple du bonheur sur la terre
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Philipa » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:14 pm

Well done Merry. I apologize for not getting here and reading your essay sooner. My thoughts after reading the passages about Rivendale is the description of the wooden beams, “dark beams richly carved”, are reminiscent of the arches inside a grand English church. I'm probably reading to much into it though you have to imagine the teachings of the Catholic church to a young orphan could become "home" and give a sense of security.

Tolkien sense of home certainly included a roof over one's head and plenty of food to eat.
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Merry » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:20 am

Thanks for coming to visit, Philipa--it's nice to see you! I don't think of the beams in a church (and you know I see Catholic everywhere in Tolkien!). I've been in the Oratory in Oxford as well as the Blackfriars' chapel, the places Tolkien went to church as an adult, but I can't remember what the ceilings looked like. I'm not sure what kind of architecture the Catholic churches would have had in his childhood. When I read about the dark beams, I think of that English style--is it Tudor?--with dark beams and sort of creamy plastered walls, inside and out. That, really, is the picture of Rivendell that exists in my imagination!
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Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
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and he shall dwell among you
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Philipa » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:56 pm

Merry wrote:When I read about the dark beams, I think of that English style--is it Tudor?--with dark beams and sort of creamy plastered walls, inside and out. That, really, is the picture of Rivendell that exists in my imagination!


Oh yes of course. I can see it that way too. :D

Sorry it took so long for me to visit. I'm stretched thin like ... well you know the butter and bread line. :wink: I do miss MEJ. :(
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Merry » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:31 pm

You know our motto: real life comes first! Considering the above, it would be ironic to neglect one's home and family to hang out with geeks!
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Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Merry » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:10 pm

Here is a great essay posted in another thread by Riv Res. I thought it belonged better here, so I have used Moderator's Power to move it! It is appropriate that Riv Res has written about Rivendell:


Rivendell is Different

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I have always been fascinated and virtually obsessed with Tolkien’s (not PJ’s) Rivendell, but Rivendell is different and I think that is why it has always appealed to me so strongly. When I read The Hobbit for the first time, I was hooked at the sentence …

    “And so at last they all came to the Last Homely House, and found its doors flung wide.”


How much more welcoming could that have been written? Not at all. Then, of course Tolkien goes on the describe Rivendell further. He certainly has a way with words …

    “Now it is a strange thing, but things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway. They stayed long in that good house, fourteen days at least, and they found it hard to leave. Bilbo would gladly have stopped there forever and ever – even supposing a wish would have taken him right back to his hobbit-hole without trouble. Yet there is little to tell about their stay.
    The master of the house was an elf-friend - one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men in the North. In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief.
    He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer. He comes into many tales, but his part in the story of Bilbo’s great adventure is only a small one, though important, as you will see, if we ever get to the end of it. His house was perfect, whether you liked food, or sleep, or work, or story-telling, or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not come into that valley.”

When you take a look at the other two Elvish communities mentioned in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, you find them far more mysterious, ethereal, … dare I say, Elvish.
The next one mentioned in The Hobbit is Thranduil’s Hall and perhaps it is because this is an entirely different kind of encounter with the Elves, but the Hall is far more mysterious and far less inviting. The mere thought of all of it being underground (although it is not the first to be so in the Tolkien world) only adds to those feelings …

    “The king had ordered them to make haste. Suddenly the torches stopped, and the hobbit had just time to catch them up before they began to cross the bridge. This was the bridge that led across the river to the king’s doors. The water flowed dark and swift and strong beneath; and at the far end were gates before the mouth of a huge cave that ran into the side of a steep slope covered with trees. There the great beeches came right down to the bank, till their feet were in the stream.
    Across the bridge the elves thrust their prisoners, but Bilbo hesitated in the rear. He did not at all like the look of the cavern-mouth, and he only made up his mind not to desert his friends just in time to scuttle over at the heels of the last elves, before the great gates of the king closed behind them with a clang.
    Inside the passages were lit with red torch-light, and the elf-guards sang as they marched along the twisting, crossing, and echoing paths. These were not like those of the goblin-cities; they were smaller, less deep underground, and filled with a cleaner air. In a great hall with pillars hewn out of the living stone sat the Elvenking on a chair of carven wood. On his head was a crown of berries and red leaves, for the autumn was come again. In the spring he wore a crown of woodland flowers. In his hand he held a carven staff of oak.”


Altogether, not the most inviting or ‘homely’ place, even if it had been under better and more welcoming circumstances.

Then we come to the perhaps what could be considered the Elven crowning Jewel … Lothlorien. It is the one Elven ‘home’ that Tolkien describes in the most (may I say … grand) detail. It is truly other-worldly. But while it is a refuge to all who enter it, I would never call it a ‘homely’ house as Tolkien does with Rivendell. Before we reach the crowning glory that is Caras Galadhon, we are treated to the other-worldly Falls of Nimrodel (complete with the accompanying song); we are introduced to ‘flets’ and we also experience the beauty of Cerin Amroth.
Then there is Caras Galadhon itself …

    “The sun was sinking behind the mountains, and the shadows were deepening in the woods, when they went on again. Their paths now went into thickets where the dusk had already gathered. Nightcame beneath the trees as they walked, and the Elves uncovered their silver lamps.
    Suddenly they came out into the open again and found themselves under a pale evening sky
    pricked by a few early stars. There was a wide treeless space before them, running in a great circle and bending away on either hand. Beyond it was a deep fosse lost in soft shadow, but the grass upon its brink was green, as if it glowed still in memory of the sun that had gone. Upon the further side there rose to a great height a green wall encircling a green hill thronged with mallorn-trees taller than any they had yet seen in all the land. Their height could not be guessed, but they stood up in the twilight like living towers. In their, many-tiered branches and amid their ever-moving leaves countless lights were gleaming, green and gold and silver. Haldir turned towards the Company.”



    “As he climbed slowly up Frodo passed many flets: some on one side, some on another, and
    some set about the bole of the tree, so that the ladder passed through them. At a great height above the ground he came to a wide _talan_, like the deck of a great ship. On it was built a house, so large that almost it would have served for a hall of Men upon the earth. He entered behind Haldir, and found that he was in a chamber of oval shape, in the midst of which grew the trunk of the great mallorn, now tapering towards its crown, and yet making still a pillar of wide girth.

    The chamber was filled with a soft light; its walls were green and silver and its roof of gold.
    Many Elves were seated there. On two chairs beneath the bole of the tree and canopied by a living bough there sat, side by side, Celeborn and Galadriel. They stood up to greet their guests, after the manner of Elves, even those who were accounted mighty kings. Very tall they were, and the Lady no less tall than the Lord; and they were grave and beautiful. They were clad wholly in white; and the hair of the Lady was of deep gold, and the hair of the Lord Celeborn was of silver long and bright; but no sign of age was upon them, unless it were in the depths of their eyes; for these were keen as lances in the starlight, and yet profound, the wells of deep memory.”

Wow!! What a spectacular, almost spiritual place! Yet, Lothlorien to me has always felt like a place to be in awe of and perhaps not that comfortable with. It is almost too mystifying … too much of another world whereas Rivendell appears to be made for peace of mind, comfort, and welcome.

When Tolkien re-visits Rivendell in The Lord of the Rings, and even considering he has the Council of Elrond take place there, he still does not give us much description of the place, and only … significantly … to reinforce what a place of warmth and comfort and peace it is …

    “Frodo was now safe in the Last Homely House east of the Sea. That house was, as Bilbo had long ago reported, `a perfect house, whether you like food or sleep, or story-telling or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of them all'. Merely to be there was a cure for weariness, fear, and sadness.

    As the evening drew on, Frodo woke up again, and he found that he no longer felt in need of rest
    or sleep, but had a mind for food and drink, and probably for singing and story-telling afterwards. He got out of bed and discovered that his arm was already nearly as useful again as it ever had been. He found laid ready clean garments of green cloth that fitted him excellently. Looking in a mirror he was startled to see a much thinner reflection of himself than he remembered: it looked remarkably like the young nephew of Bilbo who used to go tramping with his uncle in the Shire; but the eyes looked out at him thoughtfully.”


It is a testimony to Tolkien’s mastery of words that allows him to spend so much less time on Rivendell than Lothlorien and leave the reader with such a profound impression.

Why did Tolkien write Rivendell this way? Was it created because the characters in both books needed that welcoming refuge at that point in the stories? But why not make Rivendell more of an ethereal refuge than he did? And … why does he say it is the ‘Last Homely House’? Like Lothlorien, he could have just stuck with the Elvish Imladris or even just Rivendell.

Rivendell is different.
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Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Merry
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Merry » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:20 pm

I never really thought before about how different these three elvish dwellings are, Riv Res. Well done, indeed!

To me, Rivendell seems like the wonderful country inn that JRRT and CSL and their friends would have stayed in at the end of their days' hike. It is certainly the most human of the dwellings, and very English, at least in my imagination. Maybe he wrote the first description, in The Hobbit, long before he had any inkling that he would need to describe the other places in imaginative detail. Maybe Lothlorien, in his mind, was a place that took trees seriously. So why not live in them? I wonder if he had a treehouse when he was young! Thranduil's 'palace' might have been his idea of what an elvish fortress would need to look like, both natural and a defense.

It would be interesting, within the stories, to look at when each dwelling was established and for what reasons.

I guess I can understand that PJ and his designers wanted to establish a consistent kind of elvish aesthetic, which is why they made Rivendell the way it was. But it misses the spirit of the book. I don't know if a hobbit could ever feel at home in movie Rivendell, although I think Sam does say in the book that Lothlorien feels like being on holiday and at home at the same time. But I think you're right: book Rivendell feels most like home.
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Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Philipa » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:00 pm

Lovely collection of writing to make you point Riv. :clapping:

Why did Tolkien write Rivendell this way? Was it created because the characters in both books needed that welcoming refuge at that point in the stories? But why not make Rivendell more of an ethereal refuge than he did? And … why does he say it is the ‘Last Homely House’? Like Lothlorien, he could have just stuck with the Elvish Imladris or even just Rivendell.


Perhaps Rivendell's description was warm and inviting because that is certainly what is needed at the time within The Hobbit. The Hobbit's story is a children's story we can't forget that. A "home" to the dwarves and hobbit certainly write about the perfect home for a child as well.

The "Last Homely House" phrase has always intrigued me also. Is it the last place known in Middle-earth where elves welcome travelers and will soon be gone as the elves depart into the west?
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Lindariel » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:58 pm

Riv, as you might expect, I heartily second all of your thoughts and feelings about Rivendell. As you know, I spent quite a bit of time thinking and writing about it in my little Lindariel stories! Thanks for sharing this with us!

I think there are several main reasons for the differences in "feeling" about these three elven realms. They do share in common one important thing -- they were all established as strongholds for the protection and nurturing of the elven peoples. Beyond that, however, there are many differences:

(1) Rivendell and Lothlorien share something in common that Thranduil's hall in Mirkwood does NOT have -- they were established with and/or protected by the power of one of the Elven Rings. I think this is a VERY important point, and goes a long way in explaining why Thranduil's realm seems darker and less hospitable. He does NOT have the power of an elven ring to guard and protect his people and must depend upon the natural defenses of a strong underground fortress with steel doors held fast by a magic spell. I'm convinced that the lack of an elven ring shapes not only the characteristics of Thranduil's halls, but also the personality of Thranduil himself. I've written elsewhere about his understandable paranoia, given that he protects a kingdom that is constantly under siege by the dark powers resident in Dol Guldur, and that he does so without the benefit of an elven ring.

(2) Rivendell was established by Elrond who guarded Vilya, the Ring of Air (Sapphire), and Lothlorien was taken over and ruled by Galadriel, the keeper of Nenya, the Ring of Water (Adamant/Diamond). I found some interesting information in the Encyclopedia of Arda about these two rings that might shed interesting light on the differences between the two realms founded/protected by them:

Confusingly, though Vilya is unequivocally called the mightiest of the Three Rings, Nenya the White Ring is elsewhere (in The History of Galadriel and Celeborn in Unfinished Tales) called the chief of the Three. This appears to be a contradiction, but it can be seen as implying that Nenya held some kind of authority over the other two Rings (perhaps something like the authority of the Ruling Ring) while Vilya was the Ring containing the most natural power.


Interesting, huh?

Taking this further, Vilya, the Ring of Air, would be most closely associated with Manwe, while Nenya, the Ring of Water, would be most closely associated with Ulmo. There are interesting cross-associations however. Elrond established Rivendell in a place of many streams and waterfalls, yet he guards the Ring of Air. Galadriel protects Lothlorien and rules from Caras Galadhon, a lofty city high up in the trees, "in the air" so to speak, yet she is the keeper of the Ring of Water.

Then again, Elrond is a master of lore and the healing arts and is strongly associated with foresight. As part of his healing power, he and his fellow descendants of Luthien/Melian are able to reach into the realm and "see" the spirit of the ailing person and draw them back into life; sight and air are strongly associated with this gift. Galadriel also is a powerful scrier, but she does so using a mirror created with the medium of water.

(3) One must also consider the differing personalities and vocations of the founders/rulers of these three realms.

Galadriel was a High Noldorin Princess born in Aman. The Noldor were great followers of Aule and the most skilled crafters of gems. The purposes of these gems seemed to be to capture, preserve, and utilize the power of natural forces. In Lothlorien, it seems Galadriel used the power of her ring to create, capture, and preserve those elements of the Undying Lands that she most loved -- the great mallorn trees, the startling clarity and enhanced colors of Aman, the sense of Time standing still. Like Melian in Doriath, Galadriel surrounded her kingdom with a magical barrier that helped to keep evil out, but also in a sense removed her kingdom from the flow of Time. I think this greatly contributed to the otherworldliness of the place, making it magical, ethereal, spiritual, and unearthly.

Thranduil was a Sindarin prince who rose to the kingship of the Sylvan people of the Greenwood/Mirkwood after the death of his father Oropher in the Battle of the Last Alliance. He was born in Middle-earth, and never saw the Undying Lands (unless he eventually took ship sometime after Legolas departs for the Undying Lands, but Tolkien left this uncertain). As I've already mentioned, he is a Warrior-King of a besieged people, ruling without the benefit of one of the elven rings. In many ways, Tolkien presents Thranduil as a Middle-earth incarnation of Cerunnos, the Lord and Protector of the Forest, or the Year-King. His crown is decorated with seasonal foliage, so the seasons and the life of the land was something followed and honored by his people. Depending upon which version of Tolkien's stories you follow, both Thranduil and Celeborn are kinsmen of EluThingol and spent some part of their lives in Menegroth, Thingol's underground kingdom guarded by the Girdle of Melian. Thus, it should come as no surprise that Thranduil chooses to shelter his besieged people in an underground fortress.

Elrond was not only half-elven, but in his blood flows the lineage of all three Elven races -- Vanyar, Sindar, and Noldor -- as well as all three races of the Edain. I think this greatly contributed to the "homeliness," the welcome, that one finds in Rivendell. Of the three elven leaders, he is the most open to all the races of Middle-earth, guarding and protecting the elven people of Eriador, but also fostering the heirs of Elendil, and hosting all travelers of good intention, be they men, Dwarves, or Hobbits. He is also a loremaster and healer, and rather than preserving a place out of time like Galadriel, or hunkering down and turnig inward like Thranduil, Elrond's realm is a repository of knowledge and a place of communication, sharing, and healing. He is a convener of the wise, a negotiator, an advisor. Unlike the other two rulers, everything about Elrond reaches out, and that is very much reflected in the characteristics of the realm he has created.

What do you think?
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby MICHKA » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:42 pm

Un exposé très bien développé , je vais me remettre à lire les 3 tomes de Tolkien, Contes et légendes inachevées, et l' Histoire de la Terre du Milieu , pour pouvoir participer à cette fascinante discussion; j'ai laissé quelque peu , par moments, car débordée par des tas d'activités et d'autres lectures, il n'y a pas assez d'heures dans une journée, le temps de la vies''active'' passe trop vite!!
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Merry » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:47 am

Brilliant discussion!

I suppose I could look this up, but you might know, Lindariel. Was Rivendell ever found or under attack during the battles of the northern kingdom when Angmar was king?
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Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Philipa » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:35 pm

MICHKA wrote:Un exposé très bien développé , je vais me remettre à lire les 3 tomes de Tolkien, Contes et légendes inachevées, et l' Histoire de la Terre du Milieu , pour pouvoir participer à cette fascinante discussion; j'ai laissé quelque peu , par moments, car débordée par des tas d'activités et d'autres lectures, il n'y a pas assez d'heures dans une journée, le temps de la vies''active'' passe trop vite!!


Yes, it does take days to get all this information from many books Michka. Lindariel has spent years with her Tolkien books and we are not expected to know everything about Tolkien's writings. I usually do a lot more reading and less writing when this membership starts discussions. :wink:

Thank you Lindariel for that insightful reply. I never put the meaning of each of the great rings in context to their abilities and which land they were held. That in itself is a fascinating topic.
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Lindariel » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:06 pm

Merry, just a quick check of the timelines in Appendix B of LOTR shows that Rivendell/Imladris was established by Elrond in the year 1697 of the Second Age after he retreated from Eregion with a remnant of the Noldor after Sauron and his forces overran Celebrimbor's fortress to try to wrest the Elven Rings from him. Fortunately, Celebrimbor had already given Nenya to Galadriel and Narya and Vilya to Gil-galad, who in turn gave Narya to Cirdan and Vilya to Elrond. Cirdan later gave Narya to Gandalf. So from its very founding, Rivendell was a fortress and protector of the remnant of the Noldor in the North from the ravages of Sauron. Keep in mind, however, that Rivendell is also a hidden place. If you don't know how to find the hidden path into the "Valley of the Riven Dell," you will never find it. Remember, Gandalf spends quite a bit of time in The Hobbit poking about to find the hidden path, and Boromir departed Minas Tirith with only a vague notion of where to look for Imladris and searched and searched before either finding his way in or perhaps being found by Elrond's people and brought into Rivendell in time for the Council of Elrond. So part of the protection that Rivendell provides, aside from the military forces Glorfindel maintains there, is the fact that, like Lothlorien, it is hidden. You have to be a friend in order to find it!

The Witch-King arose during the Third Age and was a terror in the North from 1050 until his defeat in the Battle of Fornost in 1975. According to the battle outlines in The Atlas of MIddle-earth, Rivendell and Arthedain were in fact besieged by Angmar for about fifty years from 1356-1409. Arthedain allied with Cirdan to drive the Witch-King from the North Downs with help from both Lorien and Rivendell. From that point, it was a back and forth struggle for survival, with the men of the North gradually dwindling from skirmishes and the Great Plague of 1636. Gondor was having its own troubles as well with the Easterlings, wain riders, and the men of Harad, but finally sent a great fleet of ships to Arthedain's aid in 1975, only to arrive too late to save Arvedui Last-King. The joined forces with Cirdan and a force from Rivendell led by Glorfindel and finally drove the Witch-King from the North at the Battle of Fornost in 1975 of the Third Age, but by that time the men of Westernesse in the North had dwindled considerably and eventually became the Rangers of the North led by a Chieftain, rather than a King. The Witch-King re-emerged in Mordor in 1980.
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Re: Tolkien and Home

Postby Merry » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:56 am

Thanks, Lindariel! So if Rivendell was besieged by Angmar, he at least knew where it was? Is the fact the Rivendell wasn't attacked again due to Angmar's being driven away later? And if Angmar knew, Sauron eventually knew, right?

Anyway, I get your point that Rivendell could also be 'homelier' because it wasn't as vulnerable to attack as the other elvish dwellings, which were closer geographically to Sauron's fortresses and not as well hidden.
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