Discussing The Hobbit

Discussion of The Hobbit: a good place for Tolkien beginners to start
MICHKA
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by MICHKA » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:25 pm

Enfin vu les bandes annonces du film prévu en décembre, je crois que ,malgré l'imagination débordante de PJ, le deuxième épisode est très attendu, et que nous aurons du beau spectacle.
Tout ce que nous avons à décider c'est ce que nous devons faire du temps qui nous est imparti

Merry
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Merry » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:45 am

Yes! I stayed up way too late last night to watch the 'fan event' and was excited when it was over. Despite the fact that I'll need to hide my eyes during the spider scene, I'm looking forward to it!
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Lindariel
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Lindariel » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:39 pm

I'm excited about the sneak peeks from the second film as well -- particularly EVERYTHING I've heard of Benedict Cumberbatch's voice performance for Smaug. Can't wait to see his motion capture performance and to finally get a good look at the DRAGON!!!! If Peter Jackson pulls off an amazing incarnation for Smaug, it will make up for many of his unnecessary divergences from Tolkien's canon.

I'm also looking forward to Richard Armitage's performance as Thorin. All indications are that he is going to really knock our socks off with Thorin's descent into the dragon sickness.

Can't WAIT!!! In the meantime, my 3D Blueray Extended Edition of the first Hobbit film arrived yesterday. Guess what I'll be doing this weekend?!?!?!?!?
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“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”

MICHKA
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by MICHKA » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:34 pm

Ah!Ah!Ah!je sais.....
Tout ce que nous avons à décider c'est ce que nous devons faire du temps qui nous est imparti

Merry
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Merry » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:06 am

Je sais, aussi, Michka! Lindariel, you'll have to let us know if the purchase is worth it!
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

MICHKA
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:45 am

Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by MICHKA » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:39 pm

Youpi!!!la bande annonce est magnifique pour ce 2ème volet, elle met en appétit, encore quelques jours et je serai devant le grand écran, tout yeux et tout oreilles pour ''La désolation de Smaug'', le dragon a une voix superbe et Martin Freeman est décdément un très bon Bilbon Sacquet :clapping: \:D/ :-D
Tout ce que nous avons à décider c'est ce que nous devons faire du temps qui nous est imparti

Merry
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Merry » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:14 pm

I'm looking forward to it, too! I watched the first movie on a much larger screen at my sister's house over Thanksgiving and was also reminded of how perfect Martin Freeman is in this role.

Here is a possibility that my family, all big Tolkien fans, discussed after the movie: we wondered if we will see the destruction of Dol Guldur. This is the only way that the side trek into the Appendices could end, isn't it? And Galadriel made a point of saying to Gandalf that she would be available should he ever need her. If we see this, I hope they do it well!
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Lindariel
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Lindariel » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:56 pm

That's not really possible, Merry, unless they intend to take the destruction of Dol Guldur DRASTICALLY out of Tolkien's time line. Galadriel doesn't throw down Dol Guldur until the War of the Ring. All that happens in The Hobbit time period is that the White Council bands together to drive the Necromancer out of Dol Guldur. The fortress itself remains.
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“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”

Merry
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Merry » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:34 am

PJ has made bigger changes! I still think he quite obviously opened the door for us to see Galadriel again. At the least, we may see the White Council toss the Necromancer out of the joint!
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Lindariel
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Lindariel » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:50 pm

While that would be very satisfactory, Merry, again it would be very much against canon. When the White Council gather to assail Dol Guldur, Sauron simply abandons it. Here's the account from the LOTR Appendices:
2941: . . . . The White Council meets; Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur, since he now wishes to prevent Sauron from searching the River. Sauron having made his plans abandons Dol Guldur.

2951: Sauron declares himself openly and gathers power in Mordor. He begins the rebuilding of Barad-dur. Gollum turns towards Mordor. Sauron sends three of the Nazgul to reoccupy Dol Guldur.
Dol Guldur remains an important playing piece in LOTR as an continuing threat to Thranduil in Mirkwood and Celeborn and Galadriel in Lothlorien. In fact, it is the source of the orc force that liberates Gollum from Thranduil's care. So having Galadriel throw down the fortress in PJ's The Hobbit would be problematic.

I think the big pay-off of the White Council attack in PJ's The Hobbit will be the discovery that the Necromancer is in fact Sauron.
Lindariel Image

“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”

Merry
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Merry » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:54 am

But as we've noted before, PJ is hardly canonical!

I can't remember if it was ever included in the movies that Gollum was held by the elves for a while. All I remember is Gollum being tortured in Mordor. Was Dol Guldur mentioned at all? It seems unlikely that PJ would be satisfied with the White Council converging on Dol Guldur and Sauron just . . . leaving. Not very satisfying visually or as a narrative, and it seems that they're going to invest a lot in this story line.

Anyway, this is all just speculation. We'll see!
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Lindariel
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Lindariel » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:14 pm

I think there is some hope that PJ will preserve canon here, because he does have Saruman arguing that the Necromancer is nothing but some human masquerading as a sorceror. I think Gandalf's "mission," after leaving Bilbo and the Dwarves outside of Mirkwood, will be to team up with Radagast to enter Dol Guldur and determine just who the Necromancer is once and for all.
We've seen the trailers with Radagast asking Gandalf, "What if it's a trap?" and Gandalf clearly needing to defend himself during a desperate escape from the tower. That should be plenty exciting!
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“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”

Merry
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Merry » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:09 pm

In addition to all the LOTR events recorded for this date on the calendar, there was an important Hobbit event as well: March 25 is when Gandalf and Thorin met 'by chance' in Bree. Interesting the significance Tolkien places on this day.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Philipa
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Philipa » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:32 pm

Do you think it was coincidence Merry?
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Merry
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Re: Discussing The Hobbit

Post by Merry » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:00 pm

I don't know, Philipa. Tolkien doesn't exactly light up these things with flares! But this was in a year when there was no daily calendar for events, so he could have picked any random date he wanted. The fact that he picked March 25, a date which had much significance later and became the beginning of the new year in the Fourth Age, might not be a coincidence. And as we've discussed elsewhere, Shippey thinks Tolkien chose that day because it was the Feast of the Annunciation.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

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