FoTR - The Mirror of Galadriel: Bk II, Chapter V11

A chapter by chapter as well as general discussion of Tolkien's masterpiece
Iolanthe
Uinen
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Post by Iolanthe » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:44 pm

She was forbidden to return in some early writings (we'll get to it in the Galadriel and Celeborn bit of Unfinished Tales) and not in others.

I do agree, Lindariel, that this is a personal challenge that she passes and one that she has forseen coming. The 'atonement' I was thinking of was not, as I said, a personal one but a family one - the kinslaying, refusal to stay in Valinor, the oath which she didn't take part in, but which blighted the Noldor. Perhaps I've used the wrong word. I'm thinking about a possible need to prove to herself that she has passed a test that Feanor and his brothers would most probably have failed and is worthy to go back to Valinor cleansed of the pride and desire for lands which made them leave.

Or I could be talking a complete load of rubbish :lol: .
Now let the song begin! Let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather...

Lindariel
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Post by Lindariel » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:45 pm

Io, I can certainly see a need to atone for the sins of the other Nolder, even if she had no part in them, as part of either her "exile" or her unwillingness to return. But at the same time, Galadriel has also been pretty consistently presented as one who never trusted Feanor, his creations, and his "cause." In some tales, she openly rebuffs his interest in her (it isn't clear whether this is romantic interest or scholarly/creative interest), and she refuses on three separate occasions to grant him so much as a single hair from her head. Giving THREE strands of her hair to Gimli (who names but does not ask for one) is a MAJOR repudiation of Feanor.

In ALL versions, she is never part of Feanor's revolt. In one version, she leaves for Middle-earth BEFORE the Feanorians, and is not part of their plans. In others, she does not participate in the revolt, but states her desire to leave with them because she wishes to see the lands of Middle-earth. In every instance, she deplores the Oath and sets herself apart from their wars and attempts to retrieve the Silmarils.

So, I can see it, and then again, I can't. But that is Galadriel!
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“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”

Merry
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Post by Merry » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:18 pm

I can't keep all the versions straight, but I think Tolkien is nicer to Galadriel as he grows older. And I think I remember reading in Shippey how remarkable it is that Tolkien grows more optimistic about life as he ages, rather than the reverse, which is the case with most people. (I guess when you start out your adulthood at the Battle of the Somme, things can only get better.)

I'll have to check when I get home tonight, but I think the version that's in Unfinished Tales was written after LOTR.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Merry
Varda
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Re: FoTR - The Mirror of Galadriel: Bk II, Chapter V11

Post by Merry » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:02 pm

Today, Galadriel invites Frodo to look into her Mirror. I always imagine that it's not a coincidence that this happens on St. Valentine's Day. Tolkien has a courtly sense of love.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

MICHKA
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:45 am

Re: FoTR - The Mirror of Galadriel: Bk II, Chapter V11

Post by MICHKA » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:56 am

Salut, je n'avais pas remarqué la date de cet instant dans l'histoire, mais c'est une belle image que vous donnez là, Merry, merci de cette précision et de l'idée de l'amour
Tout ce que nous avons à décider c'est ce que nous devons faire du temps qui nous est imparti

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