The New Shadow

Life in Middle-earth after the War of the Ring
bruce rerek
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Postby bruce rerek » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:44 pm

What would really be an interesting tension is the element of doubt among the current generation with the almost fantastic accounts of the distant past. In an age with no fell beasts or Elves would the rumor of the Sauron Cults be dismissed as a bunch of crazies? Yet, the gold does hold sway over those who find themselves wanting more and their relationships suffer. The element of very odd occurences wieghed against the perfectly rational explainations would prove the nettlesome doubt of our next protaganists.
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Bruce
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Riv Res
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Postby Riv Res » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:51 pm

Who would your next generation of protagonists be Bruce? Would you still rely on the line of Elessar? Would the fantastical element re-enter by bringing some long forgotten character back from the West? Would you stick to modern day nemeses? With the cynicism in today's world, would your protagonists be flawed heroes, or would they be more Aragorn-esque?

It does tickle the imagination does it not?
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Lindariel
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Postby Lindariel » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:56 pm

Riv Res said: Bruce, I would agree with your premise and it follows Tolkien's line of reasoning as well. One of my favorites passages spoken by Gandalf from the chapter The Last Debate, in The lord of the Rings...

Quote:
'Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary.'


I find your notion of the evil of Sauron...from the molton rock of Mount Doom (wherein resides the essence of the destroyed Ring) is now embodied in the beautiful and tempting gold deposits in the East...fascinating. Always there to tempt and to lure and to ensnare.


That is a fascinating possibility, although it could be tempered by the following quote from "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age:"

For Frodo the Halfling, it is said, at the bidding of Mithrandir took on himself the burden, and alone with his servant he passed through peril and darkness and came at last in Sauron's despite even to Mount Doom; and there into the Fire where it was wrought he case the Great Ring of Power, and so at last it was unmade and its evil consumed.


Riv, I was thinking of that quote from Gandalf, as well as the closing paragraphs of The Sil:

But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void; and a guard is set for ever on those walls, and Earendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky. Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

Here ends the SILMARILLION. If it has passed from the high and the beautiful to darkness and ruin, that was of old the fate of Arda Marred; and if any change shall come and the Marring be amended, Manwe and Varda may know; but they have not revealed it, and it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos.


I have read somewhere (can't remember where just now), that Tolkien at one point implied that Morgoth would escape from the Timeless Void and contest once again with the Valar, and that it is this great war that will bring about the ultimate destruction of Arda. I don't know if this "end of days" scenario was intended to play a part in the aborted sequel The New Shadow, but it certainly provides more fodder for the imagination!

Finally, we should remember that The Song of the Ainur contained the entirety of what would befall Arda, from its creation to its demise. Hence, even after the destruction of the Ring and the downfall of Sauron, the Song continues, and Melkor's evil will continue to shape the destiny of Middle-earth. While this thought, added to the gloomy ending of The Silmarillion, can be quite disheartening, I always remind myself of the words of Eru at the completion of the Great Song:

Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.


As my little Lindariel would sing: "Eru is One, and who could stand against Him?" It gives me hope that Tolkien intended for Eru ultimately to prevail over the evil of Melkor, that all that was lost would be regained, and that the sundered Children of Iluvatar would be reunited "beyond the confines of the world."
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bruce rerek
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Postby bruce rerek » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:25 pm

My take on the next clash of evil and good would find the great grandchidren of our heros facing both peril and a crisis of faith. The largest would be that of evil incarnate, or with the fantastic. Our main character (possibly Eowen's great graddaughter) is a scientist and maintains that demons and angels are truths of one's mind. She will have to re-think the nature of physics and that of enchantment.
Since I do not possess the talents of Tolkine, I can just make a few posible themes.
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Postby Leggy » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:02 pm

I am just finishing The Return Of The King for the umpteenth time and I saw in it, (though because I had trouble getting in here for ages, I now can't remember whereabouts!! :lol:) That Gandalf says that theirs is the fight with Sauron, but that Sauron himself is only a messenger and they may one day have to face bigger powers in the future.

I hope no-one has already posted this bit, but I'm so euphoric about getting in, I had to tell you what was on my mind at that time :lol:
I am so enjoying it again!!!
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Lindariel
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Postby Lindariel » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:02 pm

I found the Gandalf quote you refer to Leggy. It occurs in the chapter entitled "The Last Debate:"

Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary. Yet it is not our part to master all th etides of the world, but to do what is in use fo the succour of those years where in we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.


Hmmm . . . very reminiscent of, "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

Each age has its own sorrows and challenges . . .
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“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”

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Postby Leggy » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:31 am

Lindariel wrote:I found the Gandalf quote you refer to Leggy. It occurs in the chapter entitled "The Last Debate:"

Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary. Yet it is not our part to master all th etides of the world, but to do what is in use fo the succour of those years where in we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.


Hmmm . . . very reminiscent of, "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

Each age has its own sorrows and challenges . . .


Thank you Lindariel! :hug: That was the one!
I often feel that Tolkien puts this point across, that we are here to put right the now, others must take responsibility for their own time.
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bruce rerek
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Postby bruce rerek » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:17 pm

It is a very important fact to remember that each generation must face its peril and know that if one tries to alter this fact for the future, it may well prove to be an aid to evil. The most direct way of knowing this is to be a parent. One prepares a young soul to be independent and responsible, their choices are theirs once they mature.
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Leggy
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Postby Leggy » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:31 pm

bruce rerek wrote:It is a very important fact to remember that each generation must face its peril and know that if one tries to alter this fact for the future, it may well prove to be an aid to evil. The most direct way of knowing this is to be a parent. One prepares a young soul to be independent and responsible, their choices are theirs once they mature.


So true, so true.
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Riv Res
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Postby Riv Res » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:11 am

So Bruce and Leggy and Iolanthe and Varda and Lindariel...and anyone else who ventures into this thread :wink: ...let's go back to our original premise and question.

Where do you think Tolkien would have taken his sequel to LOTR? Knowing Tolkien's letters and biography and other literary works...where are the clues that he left us to know what he would have created for his next story?

I have my own theory, but who would like to start out? :wink: :D
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Postby Merry » Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:15 am

I'm not creative enough to guess at an answer, but there are some important things that we could point to that might give hints. Tolkien thought of history as 'the long defeat' and that all stories are ultimately about 'The Fall'. The new story would also have to deal with a Middle-earth in which elves had, for all practical purposes, disappeared. So what will the Age of Men look like?
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Postby Philipa » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:50 pm

The new story would also have to deal with a Middle-earth in which elves had, for all practical purposes, disappeared. So what will the Age of Men look like?


I think much like this one. Where our own memories lose their brilliance for the unknown and creatures like elves and dwarfs are thought of as myth.
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bruce rerek
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Postby bruce rerek » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:52 pm

I think the world would be much like ours and the tension of the piece is found in faith. The protaganists would have certainly heard all of the myths surrounding the origins of Middle Earth, for at this age we are thousands of years from the War of the Ring. In this time anyting that science cannot describe is thought of as foolishness and the wonder of the wild has been greatly deminished. For our heros, they must first realize that although much of the known world has been quantified by science, it has not qualitatively made meaningful statements about nature.
In my own imagination I can see the much sought and lusted after precious ore from the wastes of what was once Mordor explained as human greed and obession, rather than a malevolent entity. It is worn as a badge of status and many who wear it find themselves given to cruelty.
The Orc Cults would be much like the vicious gangs that have arrisen where poverty is at its worst.
As for elves? I think that those who stemmed from Aragorn's line would be of elf kind and they have inherited thier better natures and unusual talents as well. Let us not forget that the elves did create the Silmarillions and the Rings of Power, so they do tend to stir the pot a bit.
As for the Maia? That would be an interesting role to fill. Aule's servants could also be natural scientists and not necessarily given to domination, but some will have to stray into the dark arts. Elberth's servants will be present but in a much more understated form.
It would be alot of work, more than this pen could describe, but its fun to conjecture.
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Bruce

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